What Are Your Opinions On Torrenting?

What? I don't think there is a way out of that. Surely maybe calling someone a thief for just that is way too far maybe, but I think it's just right to call someone like that a jerk. I mean, it's clear you can pay for the goods that you consume so how is not paying for that not being a total jerk?

Hardware or software, food or not, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's a product that is put out there for purchase. That's like if somebody saved up $20 and made an effort to have a lemonade stand and sell lemonades for 25 cents and then some rich guy who clearly has money and can afford to throw in 25 cents decided to just grab a lemonade, drink it and just walk away without paying, isn't that being a complete jerk? You consumed the product, you benefited from it so it's just right to pay for it if you can afford it.

 

I guess it is wrong since we have copyright infringement laws and torrenting is a medium of which these laws are violated. But my argument is that music, movies, games and the like are getting very expensive these days and for someone who is a minimum wage earner, I certainly find torrent sites helpful. But there times also that I buy music and watch movies legally, especially my favorite ones. These are rare times, only if I have the money or have been able to save enough. We have to think also of the artists and talents who made the movies and music, since they get paid for the fantastic work that they do through sales revenues.

 

You and the poster before are entitled to your opinions. But I disagree with them. Some things in life, take priority over others, and let's be realistic here, if people can get something for free rather than paying for it, they are most likely going to get what they can for free, and save the money that they have for more important, or harder to attain things.

I don't think that people who have the money, at the time, and still choose to torrent are jerks at all. I feel like that is a little strong, to be honest. But of course, it all depends on how you look at the situation. A rich guy would not do that at a lemonade stand. The circumstances are different than what they are in the case of torrenting.

 

I do understand what you're getting at and I've been through that situation before, having to choose, that's why I said what I said, but going back to my lemonade stand analogy, let's just say that it's just a normal guy who earns enough money to get by. He comes across the lemonade stand, drinks the lemonade and refused to pay for it because in his defense he has to save that 25 cents so that he can buy food or some other stuff but that doesn't make him less of a jerk than the next guy. Regardless of the reason, you consumed the product, you benefited from it, it's just right you pay for it.

Okay then let's say another guy on the block is giving away lemonades for free but that guy is taking the free lemonade from the other guy who sells it without ever giving him any form of compensation whatsoever, is that right or wrong? Of course it's all up to us and I certainly don't blame people for doing what their doing but then again, my stand is, you consumed the product, you benefited from it, it's just right to pay for it or compensate in way because people made an effort to produce those products, it cost them money, time and skill to make so it is every bit as valuable as any other product out there.

Okay let's say that the lemonade thing is different, well then if that's the case then it reinforces the notion that digital goods aren't as valuable which in turn throws away the fact that those goods are fruits of hard labor also and those efforts needs to be paid back. I'm not saying I'm above torrenting because I certainly am guilty of that, but what I'm saying is people have to be fair.

You said that yes you have the money to purchase those digital goods but you still won't pay for them because you're saving up for more important things like food or rent, but that makes you even more of a jerk if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, I totally get you 100% and I'm not being all high and mighty, I'm just defending the other side of the spectrum because I'm part of that spectrum of people who produces products that most people download for free off of torrent sites.

 

Lol. I mean you can always say that if you are saving up for more important things, then that means you don't have the money to purchase other things, such as torrented sofwares and such. I've heard the notion that if you don't have the money then you should just go without what you cannot afford, which makes sense. But again, it is not realistic. The reality is that people do not have to be fair over the internet?? Whereas in person, at a lemonade stand, people are a lot less inclined to commit such an act because there are immediate consequences. Online, you can take things for free and there are no consequences.

I do understand your perspective though, and how and why one would come to the conclusion that you have reached. But in life not everything is black and white, and to call people jerks for something so trivial - at least in my opinion - seems a bit disproportionate. That is all At the same time, I do understand how it could be harmful to not pay for such things when you have the money. As far as my own money situation, I work online, and don't make all that much. Often I am saving up - and it takes a long time usually - for things that I need? I may come across software that I want in the moment, or need. But will not use it past once or twice. So then I am faced with a choice - the temptation of taking what I need briefly for free, and choosing between whatever it is that I am saving up for; the more important of the two.

The bottom line is I know I am not a jerk. Far from it. I can be jerky in certain instances, because I'm human and we all have our jerky moments hahaha!! But being a jerk is not something that I associate with myself, as far as my overall identity. Others may think I'm a jerk. But that says more about them than it does about me, at the end of the day. I'm happy to 'be' whatever people think I am, because I know my heart/struggles better than anyone, if that makes sense.

Well... this got a little deeper than expected lmao!!

 

I, personally, would never download anything for free from a "starving artist". Someone just starting out, hasn't sold out yet, loving every minute of what they do and trying to make it. But I have no qualms whatsoever torrenting when the artist is filthy rich. I don't think any one person should have that much money and I don't care how hard you work for it. Rich was a long time ago for these people.. now it's just hoarding from the poor while they tease them out of more (how I visualize it anyway lol). I just don't care. This is about far more than "is it stealing or not", for me. I don't compartmentalize like that. You want to talk fair? This could take all day and night lol.

 

Fair is most certainly a loaded term lol. I don't think that these software companies are struggling or just starting out. They are usually established companies. Adobe and all of that good stuff. If I need it in the moment, and know that I am not going to use it regularly especially, I will not spend money that could be used elsewhere on it, when it is so readily available for free online. It's just not smart. Say I spent the money that I did have on the software, and then was crying after about not being able to buy food. Then people would ask me why I spent food money on purchasing software, and call me stupid for doing so, especially when it could be gotten for free lol. There is no pleasing other people. Juggle your own plate. Everybody else seems to have no qualms juggling their own lol.

 

No that's not my point. My point is if you have the money to purchase. Let's say Photoshop is being sold for $20 and you have $21, would you say that you have the money to purchase it along side all other expenses? No, of course not that's stupid. What I'm saying is, if you earn, let's say $50,000 - $100,00 per year and you still go to torrent sites to download an album or a software that costs $10 then you're being a jerk and I don't think there's is a sure way out of that one.

 

I love to seed and leech, and I am not ashamed to say that I don't buy movies, cd's, or video games anymore and I just choose to download them on the internet. Sure, it's technically considered as "theft", but I don't think it's morally wrong, since I'm not really stepping on anyone's toes. Besides, there are a lot of people that still buy instead of download, so it's just balanced, otherwise the movie, music, and video game industry would have died a long time ago.

 

Then I'm a jerk, because if I made $100,000 a year on my own, I will still refuse to support that sort of money making. I don't even need $100,000 a year lol.. how someone can sit on 40 gazillion and only give away a pinch to those in need AND bitch about people stealing a pinch via torrenting, is beyond me.

 

Because the 'pinch' that each violator is getting means that ALL THOSE PINCHES are being stolen from the producer. I know they're not "starving" because of it, but ... it's like if your employer decided to give ALL HIS EMPLOYEES an extra pinch, and all the extra pinches came out of YOUR paycheck.

 

I know exactly what it means and who it affects. I don't agree with the industry and I don't want to contribute to it. And yes, I'm a hypocrite, because I still want the product lol. No illusions here lol. We all balance each other out in the end. They still get their money, one way or another. I'm not a big bad person for doing whatever I can to not make the rich richer.. but everyone else is a saint for supporting the industries they do because it's legal. Look at all the animals most people kill every year or the starvation and death they support, or the dying of our planet they contribute to in hugely unnecessary ways. Just eating a burger supports industries that do all of the above. Look at what everyone contributes to by shopping at walmart; you're "pinching" from the poor then, nevermind the disgustingly filthy rich money hoarders. But if you ask here, watch how many people say "I don't care what I contribute to by shopping there, saving a penny is more important". I do my best to not contribute to any of that, I just download once in a while and choose not to contribute to a system that widens the gap between classes that shouldn't exist.

 

I hear what you are saying. I have never had that kind of money, but even if I did, I still think that I would torrent??? Maybe that is jerky of me, but I am owning it. It's just easier to torrent. Like, it's right there - easy - no credit card info has to be given out, and no money leaves your account. But if you really want to support a software, then maybe you should go out of your way to pay for it. It's different for many people, I think. Like, I make music. I have certain Virtual instruments that I use all of the time. They are amazing. I have purchased some of these, because I use them all the time and I will get my money's worth, and they were just as much a priority to me as other important things in my life. I also really wanted to support the makers. But if it's an artist who will not miss the money, and I have the money to purchase their album, I'll still pirate it. Well, not even so much pirate, but you can get tunes off of Youtube these days and not have to pay anything. It's become so easy to pirate. But maybe that mindset comes from me never really having had that kind of money, so I cannot say for certain how I would react. I'd probably want to hold onto it for as long as possible, because I am not used to it, hence the continuous piracy.

 

Like when well-off Christians lie and say "we are in the world but not of the world."

I shop at Wal-mart because it's convenient for me. Just like shopping at

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for a few years (before I found out that the

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a few blocks further-away from my apartment sold some things that FAMILY DOLLAR did not)---the first consideration was 'convenience-for-me.'

That's one reason why I take a more-Buddhist philosophy---one that states that a person's environ is PART OF THEIR IDENTITY (leading right into my take on the

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of 'quality-schools being located in higher-priced ZIP codes).

Another argument against Net Neutrality (which is the thinking that all ISP-users should have equal access to the Internet, regardless of their IP's corporate-affiliations ... nothing regarding 'racial equality' or 'equal rights' etc. like the SNL-characters indicated 'people' might think---it's only money ... that people/corporations/etc. can't get better access by paying the ISPs more).

 

Exactly.. convenience. That's why most people torrent as well. You don't have to leave home and it's rather convenient to not part with your money lol. The difference here.. the rich are always protected and it's quite all right to hurt the poor. Always has been.

 

The difference between the rich and the poor? In this case--unlike the typical, American 'how much you have being a function of how hard you work (times other factors)'--it's 'how lucky the person is (with 'hard work' still a factor, but not a very heavy one).'

One could look at 'access to a torrenting-program' as a "bit of luck" on par with 'being discovered (performing at some venue) by a record-producer.' They both involve a bit of work the same way ...

 

I have to say that torrents have literally saved my life. Software is not cheap and sometimes if you want to be able to get some of the results that professionals are able to attain, then you need to have that kind of money too and sometimes it is not as simple as that. I however think that because i was able to use the software i downloaded on torrent. I think that has helped me to make up my mind and want to purchase them later in the future. It is sort of like try before you buy.

 

Torrenting doesn't automatically mean downloading files illegally. There are very legally valid reasons to torrent files, but most people go the illegal route for copyrighted material. If you're ripping a copy of PhotoShop, which costs hundreds of dollars, then you deserve to get charged with a crime and pay a hefty fine. You could then use that program and profit from what you design after all.

With movies and music for personal use, I couldn't care less if people torrent those files. You can get them from YouTube for free anyways (in the case of music). For movies, it has a bigger impact on film studios, but they rake in billions annually anyways. It's not necessarily right to torrent, but justice doesn't really matter as much as people think.

 

The convenience is what I was talking about in my earlier post above. The example of a rich person going to a lemonade store and not paying for the lemonade that they ordered is the same as torrenting, even when the rich person has the money. I feel it is different, because that convenience is not there in that situation.

It is not jerky to torrent, in the way that people who have the money are deliberately setting out to starve these companies, in my opinion. It is just easier to torrent.

 

Kind of a 'mixed message,' but I totally agree.

I understand that many of the files one torrents are actually free to get by-torrent. And there are many free programs that serve photoshop functions (like

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). What you're often buying when you pay for those types of programs are customer-service & program-updates.

And with the music & movies ... It's kinda like Christians; who are glad Father God gives us all the good stuff we take, but are even glader that we DON'T get 'what we deserve.'